Remember in exams when one of the first things you were told is to read the entire question before considering your reply? Well, the same applies when reading a newspaper, magazine, blog or any other article.
So, just to set the record straight, and to reiterate points already made:
- The driving tips I have posted are a genuine observation of terrible driving that I witness on a daily basis. Nowhere do I say that this is a criticism of the driving of Portuguese people, but it is a criticism of those who are here in the Algarve, regardless of nationality. This is more about an underlying attitude which affects all of us here, and it is dangerous. Until there is a campaign with the type of shocking images that are seen in the USA and the UK I do not think people will understand how bad the situation us.
- I only write about what I find. I don´t make it up (not enough time or imagination). So, that's what I see and experience, and it´s my take on it. That's the luxury of a blog, you can express your views, opinions and relate your experiences.
13 comments:
"Not for the first time, my light hearted commentary on life in the Algarve has got up someone's nose."
Not just someone. The plural would be more accurate. You didn't understood that your commentary was not lighthearted. You talk about the rural Portuguese as stinking booze and you depict them as stupid ignorants that can't communicate with you. You are stereotyping, just as I did about the English. Most Portuguese know a thing or to of English language. So, your commentary was as lighthearted as my three manuals. We don't have to be victims of your mocking.
"Sadly, the comments left here had to be deleted, as they were judged to be simply offensive..."
Just as yours. I only gave you some of your poison to taste. Apparently you didn't learned the lesson.
"The driving tips I have posted are a genuine observation of terrible driving that I witness on a daily basis."
I can say pretty much the same about tourists, but I'm not here to complain.
"I only write about what I find. I don´t make it up..."
Of course I recognize that most Portuguese drive badly. But not all, and since that the distribution is equal, not all "Algarvians" (as you call it) drive badly. However, never saw anyone keeping a fag paper distance, or driving along with the fog of smoke inside the car, as you depicted. And you are unaware that cars from the right don't have priority in Portugal. It simply annoys me when others don't respect traffic rules. Now you include me in that group.
"And you are unaware that cars from the right don't have priority in Portugal. "
You can criticize bad humour (this is a free country in the end) but you cannot use lies to justify it. Since when do cars coming from the right do not have the right of way in Portugal? As a general rule, they do, you need to have a special road sign indicating otherwise, like when entering motorways. In any case you are acting exactly as the author criticizes, the fact that Portuguese people are absolutely inflexible about their right of way even if doing so means putting people at risk. Driving in Portugal is in fact extremely agrssive, something you don't see in other european countries, namely the UK. Have you ever been there and sen how they drive?! You talk in ignorance, and as such you are falling prey of the exact same attitude you criticize. Just because there are bigger assholes outr there doesn't make you less of an asshole.
Signed, a Portuguese anonymous!
Dear anonymous,
No, cars from the right don't have priority, unless a sing says otherwise.
It 's funny. If it was a Portuguese, comments would rain. Since it is an English...
Aconselho-o vivamente a ler o código da estrada. Não deve ser difícil, visto que está em Português.
Fónix, deves estar a brincar comigo ó bocas!
"Artigo 30.º
Regra geral
1 Nos cruzamentos e entroncamentos o condutor deve ceder a passagem aos veículos que se lhe apresentem pela direita.
2 Quem infringir o disposto no número anterior é sancionado com coima de 120 a 600 euros.
Artigo 31.º
Cedência de passagem aos veículos que transitem em certas vias ou troços
1 Deve sempre ceder a passagem o condutor:
a) Que saia de um parque de estacionamento, de uma zona de
abastecimento de combustível ou de qualquer prédio ou caminho
particular;
b) Que entre numa auto-estrada ou numa via reservada a automóveis e
motociclos, desde que devidamente sinalizada, pelos respectivos
ramais de acesso;
c) Que entre numa rotunda.
2 Todo o condutor é obrigado a ceder a passagem aos veículos que saiam de uma passagem de nível.
3 Quem infringir o disposto nos números anteriores é sancionado com coima de 120 a 600 euros, salvo se se tratar do disposto na alínea b) do n.º 1, caso em que a coima é de 240 a 1 200 euros."
A regra geral é que quem tem prioridade é quem vem da direita, exceptuando casos específicos que têm que estar devidamente assinalados. O que é que não percebeste aqui?!
This is a transcription from the Portuguese Rules of the Road. IT clearly says that cars coming from the right have the right of way except in noted cases in which there must be appropriate signs indicating the difference in the rule. Please don't mind him,he is just a racist prick that will say anything to have it his way!
Dear anonymous:
Fortunately for you, I don't drive. I was mistakenly confused (nunca terei o código ou a carta, nem tenciono conduzir). However, you have to admit that it was not I who depicted "Portuguese rurals" as stupid and stinking booze. That is discrimination. You can't argue with that.
That is the main issue here. Unless you ate the typical Portuguese you likes to be made fun at, you may see a clear discrimination there. An eye for an eye.
Not to mention that the author of the blog now mentions a campaign that should be enforced at an international level (I find that offensive and incendiary, instead of pouring water to a fire, he poured petrol). And what about the guys that go to a pub, take a fist on their head and die? Driving in Portugal is an internal issue, unlike hooliganism that affects not only England. I think that before having a campaign against bad driving in Portugal, we should have a campaign against racism in South Africa, another against pollution in USA, another against xenophoby in Japan and another against hooliganism in UK.
Firstly, thanks to anonymous for the extract from the codigo de estrada.
I'm sure I am not the only one who finds it amusing that someone who doesn't drive, and has no driving licence, wants to lecture me about driving standards in the Algarve!
As for "a campaign that should be enforced at an international level" you have, once again, misunderstood what is written. So, just so there is no excuse, I am going to repeat it in my best Portuguese:
"Até nós temos uma campanha com o tipo de imagens chocantes que são vistos no E.U.A. e no Reino Unido não acho que as pessoas vão comprender como a má situação."
I have lost count of the number of people I know (or I know their family) who have been killed, seriusly injured or just hurt in accidents here. It saddens me, as it was avoidable in so many cases.
I thoroughly agree that all of the other world problems you highlight are also important but this is a blog about THE ALGARVE and I am writing about an observation of life here. If I want to write about the problems of the world, I´ll get a job on a newspaper, thanks.
Now I am aware that my description of a Portuguese local I know has upset you. Firstly, the chap I refer to really exists, and he is exactly as I describe him. Frankly, meeting people like this, whose lifestyle is uncomplicated and who still have very srong traditional values, is one of the joys of being here, and often serves to remind me to readjust my priorities.
In the second part of this post, I refer to an idiot, known as the Monkey. I omitted his nationality, but for the record he is English, not that it really should matter.
Well. I don't know why some of the countless victims are coincidently your friends. By the way accidents have been happening, I should been a victim some time ago. I must be lucky. Well, most of the time I go to Algarve with my parents. They do all the driving, of course. I guess I've been lucky for not being able to testify only one single accident in the last years. I only testified an accident 10 years ago, and it was a Belgian in a motorcycle that crashed into the car behind us.
Or I am lying or you are exagerating.
Then again, I go frequently to Algarve, on a two month basis, and spend some time there. I go there since I was born, but perhaps you are describing Algarve in Morroco, not the one in Portugal. My sincere apologies.
"Até nós temos uma campanha com o tipo de imagens chocantes que são vistos no E.U.A. e no Reino Unido não acho que as pessoas vão comprender como a má situação."
Sorry, I didn't understood the last part. The English version is easier to understand. So you are not talking about international campaigns? I'm asking that because national campaigns against bad driving already exist in Portugal. So I don't know if your concept would bring something new.
Of course, once more you talk about traffic rules, while that was not the main point of this discussion. This discussion started because you stereotyped the rural Portuguese as guys stinking booze that would be incommunicato after a certain hour because of the booze issue. That really caused me to pop the top. The bad driving in Portugal is not new, unless you say that my father, who knows how to make defensive driving and never had an accident in his life after 30 years of driving, drives bad. The guys that think that they are the kings of the road irritate me sufficiently. I don't need someone from outside, that lives in Portugal for one year or two, to include my father on that category. But of course, you don't even admit that some Portuguese drive pretty well. For your information, some "Algarvians" driving out there don't even have a driver's license. That's why we see this kind of crap and faulty maneuvers with lack of respect. But of course, don't include all "Algarvians". Two or three guys driving bad in a motorway with 100 cars are sufficient to cause an accident, or even to make a bad impression, just to remind you.
My point is that you don't have the conscience that you are generalizing, or don't want to admit it. But you are familiar with that concept since you didn't liked me to do the same to you.
And the anonymous Portuguese likes to play the role of victim, or the role of humble Portuguese, so it is natural that he didn't felt marginalized when you talked about the typical drunk rural "Algarvian" or the typical Portuguese driver with sunglasses and mustache.
Now since you caused me to have a mental diarrea (sorry about the term, but all that wording suggests that), I'm empty of ideas and cannot convince you more. If you are still convinced that you were not generalizing the defects of a few to all and that your speech was nor discriminatory or xenophobe (since you are from England and the Portuguese are a strange species to you, and we don't have to be in our own country in order to be xenophobe), I have nothing to say. I wonder if you are capable of enumerating the defects of the English people, but you aren't. I can say that we are bad drivers, but not the worse of Europe. We also have have low technical skills (me excluded, since I have skills in programming and electronics, so no point generalizing there). You should make a trip to Italy someday. Just a proof of your own arrogant mindset, is the fact that you can't compose a phase in Portuguese without syntax errors. I didn't wanted to go there, but I learned my basic English in two years, as a 6th grader, and I'm not a genius. I recognize that sometimes I make my typos (a lot of them), but you didn't made an effort to learn Portuguese properly, which is more basic and much easier to learn than English. I'm not calling you stupid. But since you are naturally arrogant and you are not aware of that, you are incabaple of learning Portuguese properly because you think you don't have too. The Portuguese are to blame, because they make the effort and talk English to you, If I was to go to England, nobody would talk Portuguese with me (which I find fair, because in Greece, be Greek). The same thing with France. We are exceptional in that sense, since we are not arrogant, but guys with low self-esteem, and so we think that we have to learn other languages expecting for someone to pat us in the head. The learning of a second language is mandatory in schools here. I wonder if it is the same in England or in France.
Bocas, I'm sorry, but you are just comfirming that you're are nothing but a stupid racist. I would like to emphasize here that you criticised someone by quoting somethingobviously wrog about the Portuguese rules of the wrong, and called the author ignorant about it. You're the ignorant here, my friend. But your ignorance is still apparente, and again, you cancriticize bad humour if you think it justifies, but don't do it recurring to lies. That's the typical racist, not highlighting some obvious flaws some people generally have. But lets enumerat:
"We also have have low technical skills (me excluded, since I have skills in programming and electronics, so no point generalizing there)."
Of course, Portuguese are all stupid except you! Just to remind you that Portugal has one of the highest rate of PhD students/year in Europe, and there is no single university in the UK, for example, that does not have at least one researcher at the PhD level. Portugal is also the only country in the world that has a state agreement with the MIT, and his working to become the only one with a state agreement with Harvard School of Medicine. But you apparently know so much about this as you know about the rules of the road.
"I only testified an accident 10 years ago, and it was a Belgian in a motorcycle that crashed into the car behind us."
Statistics clearly show that Portugal is the country with the highest number of accidents and death rates in Europe. Particularly, EN125 is one of the roads with the highest death rate in Portugal. Either countries are lying, or you're just talking out of ignorance again!
"I don't need someone from outside, that lives in Portugal for one year or two, to include my father on that category."
He didn't! Did he ever mentioned your father's name? It as a joke. I repeat, A JOKE!!!
"For your information, some "Algarvians" driving out there don't even have a driver's license."
This doesn't help creating a good image of your so belove Algarvians!! What you're saying here, it's ok for them to drive badly because they were never really thaught, and Police doesn't care and cannot control them. Thank you!!!
"The learning of a second language is mandatory in schools here. I wonder if it is the same in England or in France."
In here, not only you show you have no idea what you are talking about, has are extremely arrogant and racist. First, you imply that there is no mandatory second language for UK students, which you don't know and it's a lie by the way. Second, ease of learning languages depend os the language. Portuguese people can learn more languages because they have a higher number of different sounds and complex grammar and can easily adapt to other languages. English has low number of different sounds and a simple grammar. The same with the spanish. Go to Russia, and people usually speak 6 languages for the exact same reason.
"but you didn't made an effort to learn Portuguese properly, which is more basic and much easier to learn than English."
Again, not true. English is a very basic language when it comes to grammar, and modern english is very much simplified when compared to ancient english. That's why it became so widespread! Portuguese its easier for you because you were born there, not because it's objectively an easier language to learn.
"And the anonymous Portuguese likes to play the role of victim, or the role of humble Portuguese, so it is natural that he didn't felt marginalized..."
My friend, I didn't felt marginalized because I recognized it was humour, and so, it was naturally exagerated. I recognized this was not a scientific study about Portuguese behaviour, but a caricature of some pretty obvious aspects of it. But I can tell you that it affects much more when I talk to people from around all european countries, and all the know about Portugal are the words "Ronaldo" and "Mourinho", failing to know, for exemple, that "Fernando Pessoa" is considered by many the biggest poet to ever live in the whole world! But you don't know that, because you probably never left your little rectangle, or if you did, you never spoke to locals about Portugal. You are the arrogant one making serious arguments based on lies, and using them to discriminate someone whoe is not a local. It is attitudes likeyours tha make me be ashamed of being Portuguese. I've been living in the UK and never noone reacted to some of my critics to british people, the way you reacted here. The guy was making a joke and you replied with some serious offenses (did I mentioned based on lies?!). Open your eyes and your mind, and relax a bit. One lighthearted commentary does not define the world!
""We also have have low technical skills (me excluded, since I have skills in programming and electronics, so no point generalizing there)."
Of course, Portuguese are all stupid except you! Just to remind you that Portugal has one of the highest rate of PhD students/year in Europe, and there is no single university in the UK, for example, that does not have at least one researcher at the PhD level. Portugal is also the only country in the world that has a state agreement with the MIT, and his working to become the only one with a state agreement with Harvard School of Medicine. But you apparently know so much about this as you know about the rules of the road."
You obviously didn't got the point. I was showing why it is wrong generalizing, and also showing that I can critisize my own people. Portuguese aren't all stupid, but it is a fact that Portuguese are portrayed as having low technical skills thorough Europe. But you just proved my point when I said that "comments would rain if it was a Portuguese doing so". That means that for you, it is OK for a foreigner to generalize, not not OK for some Portuguese doing so. Plus, about the PhD students, you can count them with your fingers. I don't know where you got all the statistics, but they must be government statistics. I've frequented the university and I didn't saw many students taking their PhDs. Au contraire of the government statistics, I had to give up because of the "Bologna Agreement".
Your comment about me being racist is as stupid as it could be. I told you that on my blog, but you instist on arguing around that. I'm causausian, just as the majority of the English. I might be wrong, but someone with white skin, despite having brown eyes and dark hair is still a caucasian. I presume that the blog author is a caucasian too. So I don't see the racism here.
"But you don't know that, because you probably never left your little rectangle, or if you did, you never spoke to locals about Portugal."
I'm sorry, but are you Portuguese. I never saw someone from Portugal depicting his own country as a small rectangle. So, it is not OK for my to generalize stupidity (using your own words) to all Portuguese, but it is OK for you to depict your country as a small rectangle. Unless you are also trying to prove that you are capable of critisizing your country as well as me, your comment is contradictory.
"It is attitudes likeyours tha make me be ashamed of being Portuguese."
I can say the same about you. You don't mind if someone gives a bad impression about all Portuguese, as long as he is not one of them. Reminds my of Salazar, always humble and licking the feet of Americans and Germans during the WW II (despite being a stupid fascist).
"In here, not only you show you have no idea what you are talking about, has are extremely arrogant and racist."
Your attempts portraying me as a fascist or a racist are futile. My own blog says otherwise, but of course you didn't read it, as expected.
"First, you imply that there is no mandatory second language for UK students, which you don't know and it's a lie by the way."
No, I don't imply. I wonder. Here English is mandatory not for its supposed ease of use, but because it is the language most spoken around the world. US and the British ex-colonies are an important factor. I didn't find it simpler. In fact, only simplified English is simpler. It is one of the languages containing the most irregular verbs and exceptions. That makes it harder to learn, as a matter of fact. English contains about 230 irregular verbs (Wikipedia is wrong on that, prefixed verbs seem to be missing), Portuguese has only 24. And exceptions to grammar rules are not accounted for here, but you are free to study them and prove my point.
No, you're the one who didn't get the point in the first place, but not realizing the post was A JOKE! I'll repeat it to see if you can understand it: A JOKE! Let's look at this you say:
"That means that for you, it is OK for a foreigner to generalize, not not OK for some Portuguese doing so. "
You don't get it, you're the one who took at heart A JOKE! You're the one who reacted to something that deserved no more than a quick smile (maybe a short laugh)!You're the one who started acting bigoted! And my comment was about you justifying your anger with lies about subjects you were not familiar with. Take the PhD's. You have no idea how advanced training is going on in Portugal and by Portuguese.And you are also unaware that throughout Europe, people do not think that Portuguese have low skills, but on the contrary. Only people who never left Portugal and care nothing about foreign peoples opinions would think that. (And yes, geographicaly Portugal as the essential shape of a rectangle, and it is a small country!) I find it ironic that you accuse me of being like Salazar (someone you never met in life, and only through history books) when you're the one presenting the atitude of "proudly alone". By the way, I never called you a fascist and I don't appreciate people putting words in my mouth. You are the one with low self-esime and still stuck to the stereotype that Portuguese can't do anything right. Maybe that's why you cannot take a JOKE! But do not blame other people for htat!
We have one of the highest illiteracy rates in Europe. But I guess you are seeing the wrong statistics again.
"You have no idea how advanced training is going on in Portugal and by Portuguese."
No, i have a precise idea. My father work at LNETI, now INETI, and saw the "investigations" going there. Guys that were graduated had no technical skills. They projected a fluidized bed reactor that was a disgrace. The thing had leaks that would allow the sand to go where it was not supposed to go. INETI was considered an example to follow by the government, but it is one of the worse scientific institutes in Portugal. So, is this kind of research you are referring too? Copying patents from abroad et all? I don't know about you, but for me these are make pretend researches.
"I find it ironic that you accuse me of being like Salazar (someone you never met in life, and only through history books) when you're the one presenting the atitude of "proudly alone. By the way, I never called you a fascist and I don't appreciate people putting words in my mouth."
So, you never called me a fascist, ok. I never said that. But I was just preventing. Anyway, you are inferring that. Never supported "proudly alone" fascist attitudes. However, I support self sufficiency, which this country, essentially supported by tourism, doesn't have. All our big industries are closed. There is no jobs available for who took the degree. Is this your notion of a developed country?
Yes or no, there is no point discussing with you. Your arguments based on statistics are futile.
You're taking this discussion away from it's purpose, but ok! If all you know from Portuguese scientific research is the place where your father works, then your lending support to my argument: you now nothing about the subject but still argue as if you did. My "arguments" are not based solely on statistics, but I really don't have the time to engage in such a discussion with someone like you. I have to go and do some of that poor research that Portuguese with limited skills usually do. But don't worry, that attitude problem of yours will go away, once your hormones stabilize after you leave puberty. You still have a lot to learn my friend, so just be cool, and above all,show some modesty!
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